Jetway JNF76-N1G-LF P - NetBSD and OpenBSD experience

The more often I play with BSD operating systems the more I feel an archaic mood which spreads from them. On the other hand I like them because of that. They still retains a simplicity and transparency which I found in Unix like systems when I've tried them first. Some Linux distributions went into some deeper waters and it is not always easy to understand how it works and there to find something. So, I prefer BSD system in my NAS server. However, I mentioned about problems with NetBSD in a previous blog post. I wasn't able to boot NetBSD 5.0.1 as it hanged every time I had tried. As I didn't find any solution I tried earlier NetBSD version (4.x). I was unlucky again. The install booted this time, however I got watchdog timeout several minutes after network card had been configured (I used ftp install). I had similar problems on my VT-310DP with this version, because of this i decided not to install it at all (NAS server with network problems is a pain). So I decided to give up on NetBSD (It wasn't easy as I would need to reconfigure all my server once again) and tried to install OpenBSD instead. I downloaded 4.6 boot media without package sets as I like ftp install. OpenBSD CD booted without any problems and network configured successfully (watchdog timeouts have never appeared during installation). Installation is somehow similar to NetBSD (text-based) but not exactly the same. Install process went successfully, however the fun began after it. I rebooted computer and it hanged during POST (I saw only CPU information). I tried to add usb key to other computers but they also hanged. It appeared that BIOS didn't like default OpenBSD mbr (master boot record) on my Patriot Xporter XT usb memory stick. I copied mbr from other computer and computer started without problems. Of course, I couldn't boot OpenBSD with mbr which points to inexisting grub. However, I booted system from CD as it gives an option to change booting parameters and destination. I'll try to install grub into OpenBSD and conquer the booting problem in this way. So, Jetway JNF76-N1G-LF P has problems with BSD systems. NetBSD is not compatible at all at this point (in my experience at least). OpenBSD works ok probably (I need to work with it more to confirm), but you might have problems with booting if you use a memory stick at least (it wasn't the motherboard problem as OpenBSD hanged in all my computers). I saw complain about FreeBSD in RAID mode in newegg comment (JNF76 model with Eden 1.6GHz CPU) but my board doesn't hang during POST in RAID mode (though I didn't setup RAID). If you plan to buy this board for a small server you need to careful and ready to solve possible problems. I didn't try Linux. If I'll have time I'll do that (and maybe FreeBSD, MirOS BSD too).

Update (2009-11-25):
I tried MirOS BSD (current #10 Samhain 2009) yesterday (it is OpenBSD fork). Install script is almost identical to OpenBSD except some special things for MirOS BSD (I'm not going into details here as this blog item is not about that). It installs and boots ok (from CD), however, there are a lot of problems with hardware compatibility (almost all VIA hardware is marked as unknown during boot). Realtek RTL8111C network chip is not recognized too so MirOS BSD is almost useless in this motherboard. I'll try to contact to their mailing list, maybe they'll tell me something but for now MirOS BSD is not suitable for this motherboard.  Though it is the first BSD which installed and booted without any problems.
Update (2009-12-01)
MirOS BSD doesn't have drivers for RTL8111C and it is not very likely that they'll be in the near future. You need to use supported PCI card (or maybe daughterboards might work but they use Realtek too). MirBSD OS doesn't see VIA Nano RNG and AES engines. It might be fixed. I probably will make a server on it with Intel PCI card (I'll post results later).

I stuck with OpenBSD once again. It hangs everytime then MBR is correct and shows OpenBSD partition. Somehow magically I booted several times but after one more reinstall I couldn't to repeat this. I didn't try OpenBSD on other media but it hanged in all my computers. I consider that OpenBSD and Patriot USB drive is not supported now. On the other hand I think that OpenBSD will be fine on normal hard drives as I didn't have any problems in that short period of time I managed to use it.

NetBSD 4.0.1 installs and boots ok. But I didn't try anything else. I mentioned about watchdog timeout issue that was very annoying on VT-310DP with the same NetBSD version.

Jetway JNF76-N1G-LF P 1.0GHz Mini-ITX First Impressions

I've bought one more mini-itx motherboard recently. It is supposed to change my VIA VT-310DP. VT-310DP is used for data server right now, however, it has some compatibility problems and it needs an active cooling even than I reduced cpu clock to 533 MHz. Why is that you ask? I found that changing multiplier in the VIA VT-310DP had changed cpu clock only for a one processor. The other one still worked at 1 GHz (the same problem as with powersaver utility). Because of this, it probably still ran hot enough and small heatsink couldn't dissipate the heat. My titan cooler is not to loud but it has annoying noise. It is difficult to find small and silent fan... So, one of the reasons I took Jetway that it was fanless. The other reason is more performance as it has much more modern CPU. And finally this Jetway motherboard has so called JWDB Header. You can insert additional Jetway daughterboards into it as I plan to buy four SATA daughterboard in the future. This motherboard is Jetway JNF76-N1G-LF P.


Package

Motherboard comes in a small box with curved(?), glossy surface. Besides motherboard, you can find one black SATA cable, one IDE/PATA cable, serial/COM cable, back panel shield, CD with drivers and manual (which is not necessary but nice addition as it comes in handy when you need to find something fast). Motherboard is packaged into anti-static bag with foam on the back. Nothing extraordinary, except extra serial cable maybe.

Hardware

Jetway JNF76-N1G-LF P motherboard is based on VIA Nano U2300 1GHz 533FSB CPU. VIA VX800 serves as northbridge and southbridge at the same time (VIA calls it media system processor). They are covered with separate fanless heatsinks. It has only one DDR2 slot so you can put up to 2GB DDR2 400/533/667 memory. There are PS/2 mouse&keyboard ports, 1xCOM, 1xVGA, 2xUSB and 1xRJ45 1Gbit LAN (based on Realtek RTL8111C) connectors on a back panel. Also there are three audio ports (line-in, line-out, mic. VIA 1708B 6-channel audio codec). Rear I/O ports set is poor however that is quite usual on IPC boards which aren't intended to mass market like ION platform. You can add up to four additional USB connectors through USB headers on the motherboard. You can also find one PCI expansion slot. Storage drives can be attached into two SATA II ports and one IDE. There are FP audio, COM ports, HDMI/SPDIF, DVP, LVDS headers too. It can be attached two system fans and one cpu fan. Finally, there is an integrated speaker on the motherboard so you don't need to attach it from a case. Motherboard is powered by standard 20-pin ATX connector.

Jetway motherboard uses green PCB and feels quite qualitatively made. Differently from VIA VB8001 all capacitors are solid state ones. PCI, SATA, DIMM, IDE connectors are yellow. Heatsinks aren't higher than back panels height. CPU heatsink has a metal platform at the back and is fixed with some star shaped screws. So it would be painful to change it in my opinion. VX800 heatsink uses clips only so it can be changed more easily.

BIOS

It is used the Phoenix/Award BIOS as in other VIA CPU based motherboards I have seen. Motherboard came with A02 version (2009 02 03 datecode). A05 is the newest currently but I haven't updated it yet. As I have VIA VB8001 I will compare them a little bit (specifically issues I talked about in the last post). What I can tell you right now that it is more feature rich, however, there are some differences from what you'll find in the manual too.
Firstly, VB8001 didn't had thermal monitor 2 (Ratio&VID transition) option to select. This is not the case with JNF76. It is even selected by default. However, there is described Thermal monitor 3 option (dynamic Ratio&VID transition) and you can't select it in this motherboard too. I don't know the difference between them and I still need to confirm that powersaver works as it should. Jetway doesn't show current thermal monitor bus ratio and bus vid.

Jetway Thermal Monitor Options

VIA Thermal Monitor Options

What is more, pc health status shows much more information than in VB8001. It shows CPU and System temperatures what you can't find in the VB8001. There is also a possibility to set a shutdown temperature or thermal-throttling. And one more interesting feature is to show PC health status at boot. It means you can see temperatures and voltages values at boot in the POST screen. This is nice feature, isn't it? Though maybe it is not useful very often. There are various voltage values (some of them exists in VB8001), all fans speeds (shows in VB8001 too) and smart fan configuration (not present in VB8001).
One more difference is an option to enable S.M.A.R.T function for HDDs in BIOS. I still need to test SATA behavior as I didn't try to attach any HDDs or CD-ROM.
In "miscellaneous control" (which serves the same purpose as frequency/voltage control in VB8001) you can change external cpu clock or FSB (default 133 MHz) and various RAM/CPU voltages.

Update (2009-11-24)
As with VB8001 BIOS doesn't show SATA devices in Standard CMOS features. What is more, you can't see IDE devices too if SATA - RAID mode is enabled. IDE devices appears in RAID utility screen. Boot from CD-ROM option doesn't not work when RAID mode is enabled too (even it's a IDE CD-ROM and it appears as a separate device with the same problems as in VB8001 (still need to figure out but it has similar problems)).

Summary

All in all I am quite pleased with Jetway motherboard. It is well made, BIOS looks decent and everything appears promising. However, there are some unclear things in the future. CPU temperature reached 41-44°C and system temperature reached 35-37°C in BIOS on idle. Heatsinks became quite hot. So I still need to test if passive cooling is enough for the system. The other problem appeared when I had tried to boot NetBSD. Operating system hanged after USB controller was detected. It worries me as I planned to use current configuration without modifications. What is more, I need to check how PATA/SATA and RAID works. I hope to test PowerSaver and some performance capabilities. Finally, I use DDR2 533MHz as it was cheap to get at buying moment (the new RAM modules became quite pricey). So it can be that with DDR2 667 MHz system can work better.

VB8001 - hardware and BIOS

This blog item is not about performance, it's only about hardware and BIOS. You can find some performance numbers here.


VIA VB8001-16 is a mini-itx motherboard (17x17cm). It is powered by VIA Nano L2200 1.6GHz 64-bit CPU. It also has two DDR2 667 memory slots (up to 4GB), PCI-Ex16 slot for additional video card, 2xSATA ports, 1xIDE port and one mini-pci slot at back side. Northbridge is CN896 (integrated VIA Chrome9 HC graphics), southbridge - VT8237S. There are COM, VGA, 2xUSB, PS/2 keyboard & mouse, RJ-45 Gbit and audio ports. It sure looks quite empty :). I don't know why they didn't included two more USB ports. But it is embedded board so it's understandable. As you can find in the forum above you should be aware of mini-usb headers on the motherboard. Standard header to attach front panel USB won't fit without adapter. You can have additional six USB ports with them (three headers). One of the headers (12-pin) can be used for VIA wlan usb module. There are more headers on the motherboard but I won't go to the details about them. You can find description on the user manual if you need to. Motherboard still uses electrolytic capacitors instead of solid ones which became popular in many current motherboards. CPU and northbridge are covered by one "big" heatsink and they are actively cooled. Once again PicoPSU hits one of the capacitors but it is better situation than in VT310-DP. It fits almost by 100%. Fan is quite loud imho... This is there I hate VIA the most :). They've never done such things right (ok, it is my opinion too as I had only two mini-itx motherboards from them).



Enough about hardware which is as it is. I want to talk a little bit about disappointing points of BIOS. It is quite a standard AwardBIOS. However, it has some specific problems. Firstly, it sees only 3GB at boot (if you have 4GB. OSes see all RAM). Then you enter BIOS you find some more unpleasant surprises:

1. VIA CPUs have a feature called PowerSaver (or longhaul earlier) which has somehow similar purpose to Cool'n'Quiet and SpeedStep technologies accordingly in AMD and Intel CPUs. Theoretically you can choose between Thermal Monitor 1 (on-die throtting) and Thermal Monitor 2 (Ratio&VID transition) in BIOS (Advanced BIOS features->CPU Feature). You can find even a description of both options in BIOS. However, in reality you can't choose Thermal Monitor 2 for some reason (there is now such option to select). So once again I can't use PowerSaver at all (like it was in VT310-DP). CPU always works on full frequency.

2. There is no CPU temperature in PC Health Status. I need to use programs which aren't always accurate.

3. Boot from CD-ROM doesn't work with SATA CD/DVD-ROM. It wouldn't be an issue as it appears as separate device and you can choose it in boot priority, however there is a problem here. You can choose it in device priority only if boot(?) CD/DVD inserted (it didn't appeared with just simple data dvd inserted). Otherwise dvd-rom just disappears from devices. So, if you want to install a new OS from CD you always need to insert disk, go to BIOS and set a priority to newly appeared device.

4. SATA devices is not viewable in Standard CMOS features. It was so with old motherboards. So no progress here with VIA.

5. Overclocking options doesn't exist (only some voltage tweaking). However, it is not a big deal with such system.

Other problems aren't confirmed. I don't know if SMART working properly. There is no options to enable/disable it for hdds and applications doesn't detect any SMART values for my current hdd (but it might be other problems (for example, with hdd itself as I bought it used recently)).
I have read about issues with virtualization. BIOS doesn't have a feature to enable/disable it. Once again it might be a problem with software which doesn't know about such CPUs and its capabilities (update 2009.12.27. According to wikipedia virtualization is disabled before stepping 3. My both VIA Nano boards have CPUs with stepping 2) . And there is no clear option to disable integrated video if it is possible at all. I didn't try to disable shared memory as I was afraid that it might lead to the same situation as in VT310-DP (BIOS hangs and you need to clear it to boot).

So it is the start. I may update this blog with new problems in the future if I'll find/remember them.