Microway Sreamer, NetBSD Alpha, Xorg

I am playing a little bit with NetBSD alpha current (201005290000Z sets) on my Microway Sreamer and it has some interesting points you probably won't have with non-current (or maybe non alpha port) builds. Firstly, it is difficult to use binary packages from 2009Q3 branch. Packages will install without problems, however, I had problems to run them afterwards. Some applications won't run with missing library file errors (*.so._ files). In most cases I resolved that with symlinks to the newer versions of that libraries which existed on system (for example it can be missing library.so.5 but you can find library.so.7. I make ln -s library.so.7 library.so.5). Probably it is not very good solution but it works. As I wanted to avoid such workaround I downloaded current pkgsrc sources. Yes, 500 MHz DEC Alpha with 256 MB RAM is not very fast but it is not painfully slow as I though initially. Maybe I'll try to make cross-build environment on my AMD64 computer in the future to speed up this process (if that's possible). I recompiled kernel to make in even slimmer and to add isapnp* support as it is not enabled in kernel by default.

Xorg compilation notes 

I didn't install X11 sets as I planned to build X.org myself. NetBSD alpha still installs XFree86 by default. However, X11FLAVOUR=Xorg option appeared in NetBSD current (maybe it was earlier too). There are some steps which you need to make before compiling, otherwise you'll end up with errors (particularly with X11_TYPE = native and modular loop on pkgtools/x11-links dependency). My first mistake was that I didn't installed X11 base set (you shouldn't install all X11, but X11 base is required as pkgsrc uses libraries from /usr/X11R6 during compilation). If you made such mistake too, you just need to boot from install cd once more and choose "Re-install sets or install additional sets". Later you need to pick custom option and select only X11 base and clients option. Others must be deselected if you don't them to be reinstalled. You'll find on the web that you need to set up X11_TYPE=modular in /etc/mk.conf before compiling.  However, that is not enough. You also need to set MKX11=yes and X11FLAVOUR=Xorg in /etc/mk.conf too (as you compiling it from source). Only then you can expect a successful build. Without these two options you will stop at pkgtools/x11-links this error:

ERROR: This package has set PKG_FAIL_REASON:
ERROR: Do not include x11.buildlink3.mk for X11_TYPE
!= "native"

If you'll set up X11_TYPE=native then you'll get an error that you need to set up it as modular. I am building it now so I'll update this part later.

Update (2010-06-02): Build was unsuccessful. It stopped at libpciaccess which is not available to alpha port as error stated.

Update 2 (2010-06-03): I managed to fix or bypass various compiling errors, however, still stopped at linking. I give up for time being. I don't have a way to build xorg-server from source right now.

Update 3 (2010-06-26): I returned to compiling today and it turned out that I had needed only one small change in one Makefile (add -lalpha to XORG_SYS_LIBS). Xorg server compiled successfully. I made a mistake because I added make install clean and work folder was deleted but if you'll try to do this you can find most of tips in this two links:
http://old.nabble.com/X.org-1.3.0-server-on-NetBSD-alpha-td13057190.html
http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-x11/2007-May/004317.html

There are some small changes from what is written in those links (there are some changes which files you need to change and where they are mostly, however changes are almost the same) but you always can make changes after you got an error. You don't need to recompile everything after that. Of course, you should read my tips earlier and follow "how to install modular xorg" document. What is more, you can add alpha platform to libpciaccess to bypass an error that it is not available in alpha port (look at Makefile and changes that added SPARC support). It compiles successfully too after that. Now I am compiling other xorg components. If everything will go ok I'll update if I can boot into X.

Update 3 (2010-07-01): The last update on this matter. It appeared that NetBSD alpha kernel had security level 1 by default(?) or after I recompiled it. There is no possibility to run X11 on this security level (ok, there are some ways but they aren't available or more complicated on Alpha platform). This was the reason I was always getting a memory access errors. So I recompiled kernel once again with less security level. After that X.org seemed to be started correctly however in the end I still didn't get the graphical environment working. AlphaPC always restarted after startx command. Error log didn't show anything as computer was unable to write it before crash correctly. I tried to start it even on XP1000, however NetBSD froze there after startx on any driver and graphic card (XP1000 has much better compatibility with current graphic cards). Error log didn't show any errors and it seemed by it that everything had started correctly. So I guess that it might be even more configuration problems (not Xorg but OS itself). However it might be that some X.org modules doesn't load/work correctly on Alpha too or just because I use development build. So I am making some rest from my AlphaPC for some time once again. But it was fun to solve such a bunch of problems. It will be much more easier in the future.

Srm-console and hardware support

Srm console on AlphaPC164 has lot of limitations with current hardware. It doesn't support most of IDE, SCSI controllers. It doesn't support any USB, SATA controllers. So you can boot operating system only from integrated primary IDE controller (secondary is not recognized too) or some SCSI controllers (look at NetBSD/alpha notes) and floppy controller (however, I broke one pin in it :( so I don't have this option now too).  As I don't have any compatible SCSI controller I use IDE controller. What is more you can have problems with some CD/DVD-ROMs. They can be recognized but if you'll try to boot from them you'll get lot of read errors. My current old hard drive works only PIO 4 mode.  Still you can add all expansion cards into PCI and ISA slots because they will be supported in operating systems. I mount /usr folder on other hard drive which is attached to SCSI controller on 64-bit PCI slot. I can use USB (though only two of four ports works on NetBSD on delock usb card with vt6214L USB controller. Debian doesn't have this problem). I even attached ISA sound card (crystal cx4235). It is not supported by NetBSD again (it works on Debian though). NIC is VIA VT6105 (D-Link DFE-520 if not mistaken). It works ok on both OSes. VT6421A SATA controller is supported on NetBSD and Debian too. As I mentioned earlier, graphics support is very limited on srm console. You will see blank screen with most graphics cards. Some cards will hang the system, others won't  (you can see progress through serial console) but result will be the same. Some cards will even show some output on monitor but it won't be recognizable (just some hieroglyphs). I use S3 Virge/DX currently. Unfortunately I wasn't able to boot into X until now (nor in Debian, nor in NetBSD. An old Ubuntu on i386 proved that this card can boot into X with s3virge driver and 800x600 resolution so I'll try a Xorg on NetBSD later if everything will install correctly).

Microway Screamer problem resolved

I mentioned almost a year ago that my Microway Screamer experienced "Processor detected single bit ECC error in Bcache" error during Debian install. After that I couldn't install or boot any operating system (NetBSD or Linux) on it. This error continuously repeated during install and system was hanging afterwards.  I suspected that it could be RAM or CPU problem. I also had some fear that a motherboard had broken too. As I had spare DEC Alpha CPU in my collection I had tried it first. The system booted but it didn't resolve a problem. I didn't have any spare RAM at that time, so my system was left to collect a dust for some time. I finally found 4x SIMM FPM parity RAM just recently and got them today. And yes, the problem disappeared. After I changed memory modules the system didn't throw the error anymore.  I successfully booted NetBSD once again. Just a pity that seller didn't have 8x modules :).

Jetway JNF76-N1G-LF P - NetBSD 5.1RC boots, ADPE4S-PB SATA controller problems

Good news for NetBSD users. I downloaded NetBSD 5.1 RC and it successfully booted on my Jetway JNF76-N1G-LF motherboard. It wasn't the case with the earlier NetBSD 5.0.x versions. However, it is still not suitable for RAID (as linux too). Under RAID mode hard drivers aren't detected. You can find in dmesg that device wasn't configured. Still it is a good progress from BSD side as I had a lot of headache to setup the system because of no or limited support from BSD operating systems (I needed to switch to linux).

I probably didn't mention earlier but I bought ADPE4S-PB SATA daughterboard for this motherboard. Unfortunately, I have a problem with it. As I inserted Intel Pro/1000 GT network card into PCI slot, daughterboard can not initialize properly. I am getting a warning that option ROM can not be invoked. Daughterboard works without network card installed. I am trying to resolve this issue through jetway support but it is more than two months without much progress. It might be some BIOS problem but I don't know a technical side of this solution. It seams that jetway connector for daughterboards is just somehow modified PCI slot. Marvel 88SB-LKJ2 PCI-E to PCI bridge on ADPE4S-PB probably proves that too (daughterboard is based on Marvel 88SE6145-TFE1 PCI-E SATA controller). So it can be a technical limitation as well. Right now I think that every board installed on PCI slot which has some additional boot ROM (like network cards with bootable ROM, SCSI controllers and so on) will block ADPE4S-PB. Other ones like NIC without ROM, audio, graphic adapters shouldn't cause this problem (I tested some boards). If you don't plan to use expansion cards with bootable ROM then everything should be ok. It is just interesting how effectively this controller will work with all four hard drives attached as PCI slot doesn't provide enough bandwidth IMHO (in case I am right about that connector). I will announce if something will change in this area.

Update:
What is more, you can't even connect hard drives to ADPE4S-PB and integrated SATA connectors at the same time. You can't enable integrated LAN boot ROM in motherboard's BIOS. So the problem is not even with PCI slots.

Update2:
You can use integrated SATA connectors and ADPE4S-PB at the same time but only in IDE mode (not RAID).

Shift back to mini-itx (first experience)

So so... As I promised after new year I had some hardware changes. I returned to mini-itx platform once again. This time I had more reasons than just experiment as it had been with VT-310DP. Firstly, I wanted to lower power usage (I don't play much and don't do big computational projects, because of this Intel system is just absolutely unused power beast for me. Yes, I thought about it when I had bought it, however, my expectations didn't materialized and objectives changed a little bit). Secondly, I expected somehow better compatibility with various operating systems and easier environment configurations. New Intel platform couldn't provide that. What is more, I hoped to set up everything with as little time as possible ("perfecting" work place for a half or one year is just to much). Lastly I needed more space for my legs :) (there is not much space under the table)...

Purchase

Unfortunately, purchase process didn't go as well as I had planned initially. I ordered MSI AM-780E mini-itx motherboard with dual-core Athlon Neo CPU in January, however, it appeared that it hadn't been released yet. I was told to wait until mid of March. And I waited... but then I got an answer that I should wait one more month and it might be not released at all. I decided to change it as I didn't want waste time anymore and I ordered the most similar motherboard which e-shop had (from Germany). That was Jetway JNC-81 with quite similar configuration and the same chipset. The main reason I was a little bit disappointed because I didn't like mini-itx motherboards with CPU sockets. I see true mini-itx motherboards only with soldered very low power  cpus. However, I didn't have a choice (I wanted dual core CPU and, of course, Intel Atom wasn't an option). I chose Athlon X2 235e CPU for it (as it was an only 45W dual core in stock in Lithuania. Quad core 600e was available too but it was considerably more expensive). I had some problems in acquiring RAM too. I wanted to get Kingston CL5 but they had become out of stock just after my order. I was forced to get CL6. MSI AM-780E was released eventually but I prepared my computer for work by that time.

The other parts included Akiwa GHB-B05-5 enclosure, Seasonic SS-250SU 250W PSU and Jetway AM2 Low Profile heatsink for JNC81. Hard drives were taken from old computer as always.

Setup

Current configuration is:

Athlon X2 235e 2.7 GHz 45W TDP
Jetway JNC81 
Jetway AM2 Low Profile heatsink for JNC81 (replaced with default AMD cooler)
2x2GB Kingston KVR800D2S6/2G RAM SO-DIMM DDR2 800
Seasonic SS-250SU 250W PSU
Akiwa GHB-B05-5 mini-itx enclosure
(old ones)
Samsung HD160JJ 160GB
WD CAVIAR GP 750GB (WD7500AACS)

Setup was quite smooth except that I installed one RAM module incorrectly at first (I needed to push it more firmly). First problem was loud fans and hot operating temperature without case fan (it was included). I resolved this problem by changing Jetway fan with fan from AMD stock heatsink. It was a little bit higher but with controllable speed depending on load (four pins header) and lower noise. However, case fan was the bigger problem as it was just very loud. I slowed it with fan resistor. After that noise level and temperatures became acceptable. I found one BIOS problem. If you turn off quick power on self test, post tests RAM continuously. You must to press esc to process further (or just to set quick power on self test to enable which is default). Integrated video takes 128 MB from your RAM by default (+128MB sideport memory soldered to motherboard). There is an issue that I didn't resolve. USB ports are working in slow 1.0 mode from USB headers (aka front USB). USB ports in the back panel works correctly in ehci (2.0) mode. I might resolve this in the future.

Windows, NetBSD, Linux, Haiku

I didn't need to reinstall Windows 7 (more accurately Windows Embedded 7 CTP1). It recognized drivers correctly and everything worked out of the box except that I needed to reinstall graphic driver  (ATI catalyst). 1GBit network download/upload speed was slower from my NAS server with one big (0.5-4GB) file than in Intel platform (~30-40MB/s instead of 50MB/s) but it appears to be a usual speed from Realtek NICs. I had an issue with my old network cable (which came with router). Then I inserted it network worked only at 100MBit/s. Solution was to change a cable...

My other long time dream was to make NetBSD as primary desktop system. This time I tried to make it seriously. As I had some experience with it after some years playing with it and using it on VT310-DP NAS server it helped me a lot this time. I decided to compile most packages from pkgsrc (not downloading binaries). It might be slower but you just need to start compiling (make install clean) and all dependencies will be fetched correctly and without interruptions. I don't know why but it is not the case when you set PKG_PATH variable and download binaries. You will always find stalled downloads this way (especially if there are a lot of dependencies). It took me four-five days and two complete reinstall to setup everything but in the end I got the most usable desktop NetBSD system I have ever had. I doesn't mean that there are no problems but I have Gnome 2.28.1, OpenOffice 3.1, Firefox 3.5.8 with flash plug-in (the biggest headache was to make sound work in flash), developing enviroment (gcc, opejdk7, gtk, qt, some IDE, RAD tools, shell, etc), video, music, samba, ntfs-3g, radeon-hd, correct shutdown and so on. Unfortunately, cpu scaling doesn't work and it seems a problem with ACPI driver to manage CPU p-states. There is no proper driver in NetBSD currently. I need to restart pulseaudio every time after restart to make sound work. Videos doesn't work full screen and even with bigger resolutions. I recompiled kernel with newer release 5-0 maintenance kernel (2010-04-17). It solved problem with detecting USB devices (I needed to reattach mouse after first boot often with generic 5.0.2 kernel).

NetBSD 5.0.2 amd64

I didn't test Linux much but Fedora Linux 13 Beta1 installed without any problems. CPU scaling, network and sound works as it should. I don't think that it will much difference than with earlier systems after some configuration. Linux shows good support for a common hardware currently.

I even tried Haiku current (2010-04-17 or 2010-04-18). It installed and booted without problems too. Network worked from the start (I don't know if 1Gbit/s works). I played with several applications but it was limited to that.

That's all for now.

New CPUs in collection

I have uploaded new CPU photos to picasa recently. The most interesting new CPUs was IBM TCM module (XA architecture and the biggest CPU I have probably), dual core Freescale MPC8641D, Philips 68070 and Digital StrongARM SA-110S for me. However, others had their part in CPU history and I am happy to have them too. I didn't have ARM architecture for a long time and that was fixed with StrongARM and Cirrus Logic EP7211-EB-D. Intel i860 family augmented with three new CPUs (all of them are i860 XR). I liked Hitachi HD68HC000Y12 (Motorola 68000 clone). My DEC PDP-11 was replaced with newer one which had newer date code and newer revision. You can find several non standard chips like Broadcom BCM7315KPB single-chip satellite set-top decoder, Cavium Networks CN210-166BG276 secure communication processor and LSI ATMizer-LX66 ATM network controller whose have MIPS cores at their heart. There are a number of new PowerPC CPUs too (Motorola XPC603PRX166LE, Freescale XPC823ECZT66B2, PLX Technology IOP 480 I/O proccessor). That is all for now but I'll have more in the future (Motorola XC88110, IBM PowerPC G5 (970FX, 970MP), AMD AU1550-333, Motorola PPC755ARX400LB and Motorola MC68000RC8). I planning to make a break on collecting as I need to save money for other purposes.

Happy New Year!

Happy New Year! 2010 started but my blog is still alive :). This year you can expect from me lot of new changes with my hardware. I'll try to write at least something about their performance. What is more, my cpu collection became bigger. I just need to make photos. I am sure that collection will grow this year too. As I am focused on mini-itx right now you'll probably find more news about them here. So, if somebody reads this blog I'll be happy to share my experience with you and in 2010.

Jetway JNF76-N1G-LF P - *BSD and Linux experience - continued

From my last article you can find that I unsuccessfully tried to boot NetBSD and OpenBSD on the Jetway JNF76-N1G-LF P motherboard. MirOS BSD booted ok (with some conditions like IDE option instead of RAID) and I was planning to use it for NAS. However, MirOS BSD didn't support integrated 1GbE network interface (Realtek 8111C). I bought Intel Pro/1000 GT PCI card to solve this, however, it didn't work too. Realtek 8139D 10/100 network interface worked ok but it was not Gigabit. So I decided to try FreeBSD as last hope for BSDs. It installed without any problems and detected hardware (without RAID mode), however, the first boot was unsuccessful. It couldn't mount root partition for some reason. As I didn't want to spend more time on that any more I had decided to give up on BSDs.

So, I decided to use Debian (stable 5.0 release AMD64 port) on my NAS server. It installed without any problems (I used base packages ISO with some packages downloaded from internet). It booted with RAID option on and detected all my hard drives without problems (update: problems appeared later, read about RAID mode below). FFS partition mounted in read-only mode too. However, the problem began here. I tried to copy all data from FFS partition to EXT3 (in other drive). Copy process was very slow for some reason (3MB/s). I don't know if it's a kernel problem but the fact was that I had needed 3 days to copy all data (about 800MB). Later Intel Pro/1000 GT went to 10MBit/s mode. I used ethtool to set up it correctly once again.

The speed always goes down than I uploading/downloading something from samba, but it ends up for about 7-9MB/s. It is not very good and I think the main reason for this is slow copying I mentioned earlier. I’ll try to change a kernel to a newer version and I’ll try Realtek 8111C in the future too. Despite this problems, Debian works very stable. I think this ends up my efforts to set up NAS on JNF76-N1G-LF P motherboard. I hope I’ll solve last problems in the future. In conclusion I can say, that this motherboard is not suitable for BSD platforms for now. If you want to use it like a server you need to use Linux. VX800 is not supported by BSD systems.

Update (2009-12-22)
I recompiled the kernel to 2.6.32.2 (from 2.6.26-2). It didn't helped to solve a copy process problems but I figured out that for some reason dma had been disabled (hdparm utility). It seemed that hard drives had been working at PIO mode. So it wasn't unexpected that copy speed hadn't exceeded 3-5 MB/s. As hdparm -d1 didn't work (I got an error that permission to do this was denied) I disabled RAID (AHCI) in BIOS once again. DMA was enabled automatically after restart. 

As I didn't try real RAID in any configuration I don't know what problems you could get from this. It seems that VX800 RAID is not very well supported too (or it is not enabled in kernel, but I didn't find any separate options instead of default VIA SATA modules which was used with other VIA chipsets). After that everything works like a charm. Copy speed is good and what is more I got constant ~50MB/s through samba during download/upload process. I didn't have such speeds with my VT-310DP and NetBSD (as I remember they were between 14-19MB/s and it draws lot of questions why it was so then). So I can be finally happy with my NAS server. Last thing I'll try to compare Intel 1Gbit card with integrated Realtek in the near future. Of course, I'll try to investigate RAID/AHCI matter but that is not a priority now.